What should Seattle do about gun violence in schools?

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the latest edition of Seattle Nice, the June 10th edition because we're taping June 10th in the afternoon and we're talking about the tragic shooting outside Garfield High School. A 17 year old student was shot and killed in the parking lot last

[00:00:26] week and Erica C Barnett and Sandeep Kaushik are here to talk us through a little bit about what happened and also what's happening on the city council sort of in response to this.

[00:00:40] So Erica, starting with you, can you talk a little bit about just what do we know so far? Yeah I mean we don't know a whole heck of a lot except that it was a student who was

[00:00:51] intervening, this was in the parking lot outside the school who's intervening in an altercation and he got shot. He was not involved in the initial altercation and the person who did the shooting was apparently another teenager who has not been arrested yet as we're reporting this on

[00:01:07] Monday afternoon. Yeah I just wanted to add yet that the 17 year old who obviously very tragically was was killed was yeah trying to adjudicate a dispute in the parking lot. He's a member of

[00:01:17] he was a member of the football team at Garfield and apparently really well liked and popular part of the school community and so it's really sad. And the initial reports are that he was trying to

[00:01:28] break up. He's trying to break up a fight yeah. Yeah and I have a friend whose kid is actually on the football team who they I guess were attending the vigil and yeah it's just one of these

[00:01:41] string of just school shootings that we've had. I mean I guess before we kind of get into it we do talk about every school shooting right in Seattle we're not sort of selective in our approach to

[00:01:52] these things. This one seems to have really struck a chord I'm just kind of wondering why that is. I think part of the reason it is is that I think it's the first fatality in a shooting

[00:02:00] right outside of Garfield but there's been there was a previous incident of gunfire and then in that neighborhood just generally not really related to Garfield but just in the neighborhood I've certainly heard complaints from folks that live or do business in that vicinity that there's

[00:02:18] been an uptick in recent months of just crime generally right. So I think that's kind of feeding into the concern but yeah there was I think it was back in March there was another shooting or

[00:02:30] shots fired outside of Garfield high school and I have to go back and look up the date that's not actually very long ago right so this is not it doesn't seem like an isolated incident.

[00:02:40] Well Erica we're here as always to talk about the city of Seattle and Seattle City Council so what kind of a response are we seeing so far there? Well I know that some of the city council

[00:02:50] members went to the vigil over the weekend and this afternoon they were talking about the shooting in council briefings which is just kind of their meeting to discuss the week and you know I mean

[00:03:02] I would say that they were sort of as a more conservative council they were talking about the things that they sort of already want to do in the city and tying them to this school shooting.

[00:03:13] I heard a lot of people saying things like you know we need to we need to stop talking we need to do which is an interesting way of phrasing it I mean there wasn't a lot of specifically

[00:03:22] school related solutions but what they were talking about was we need to crack down on Third Avenue we need to crack down on Twelfth and Jackson we can't have our kids witnessing this stuff we're failing our children if they have to you know walk by people you know

[00:03:34] doing drugs and dealing drugs you know one specific Maritza Rivera I believe was talking about the idea of school resource officers which are police in schools they were taken out of schools in 2020. I don't know that there's any credible evidence that they prevented school shootings

[00:03:50] before but that was one idea metal detectors kind of what you would expect from this council and in some ways sort of justifying the stuff that they have already proposed and saying

[00:04:00] look here is another reason that we need to do all this stuff but you know I mean to be fair to them it is kind of down to the school district in a lot of ways and that is not something I follow

[00:04:08] us closely but but that's what the city council is talking about. Sondip what are you hearing? Yeah well the council may have been talking about it in council briefing today but I think they seem to be echoing the requests and the concerns they're hearing from folks in that

[00:04:23] community. You know I heard from one of the council members over the weekend who had been down there talking to folks in the community and in that neighborhood in the central district part of

[00:04:34] the Garfield community are the ones who are saying we need some help here there is a real problem and we and they are asking for things like metal detectors at the school or increased police presence right and I thought it was I thought it was super noteworthy that

[00:04:52] the way this is sort of boiled over into the one city council race right we have the race for the citywide seat that's currently held by Tanya Wu and it was the left lane candidate in that race

[00:05:02] probably the leading left lane candidate a less Alexis Frinke who did a tweet saying I just met with members of the community and listed some of these things like metal detectors at the

[00:05:12] school and quote unquote increased police presence is things that need to happen in response to the community. She was describing she was describing what by the way it's rank not rinky it's spelled r-a-n-c-k

[00:05:22] yeah so she was describing things that she heard at the meeting at the vigil that she was at I don't I don't really know why that's noteworthy I mean describing things that you heard yes people

[00:05:33] are calling for those things I mean I'm not you know I'm not sure what that says about the quote unquote left lane but of course it's huge like a left lane she's approvingly quoting these

[00:05:44] things we're talking about we're not going to tweet so she's not she's not sort of factually reporting like and by the way nor is she saying like oh my god this is a terrible idea we shouldn't

[00:05:54] have more cops in the schools because that was the left lane position even you know I think a year ago yeah I mean I just I don't want to spend too much time like obsessing over a tweet

[00:06:05] again because I mean twitter is is sundeep's real life but it's not my real life and it's also not real life but I mean I do think that there is momentum for all those things and I think that

[00:06:16] that is something that is going to get discussed I don't know if it's actually gonna happen because frankly you know school shootings happen everybody says we've got to take action and you know in the action number really seems to come I mean and so it whatever the action

[00:06:29] is you know I mean I will say in 2023 before the council turned over and got six new members the council did pass six to three legislation that basically a budget amendment that added around 20

[00:06:43] million dollars a year by increasing the jumpstart tax a little bit to pay for mental health services in schools and that was sort of appropriated without a specific spending plan it was a little

[00:06:55] bit last minute I think sundeep and I would both agree like it was last minute but but that money has not been spent and it hasn't been allocated yet and it's June so you know that mental health

[00:07:06] funding was specifically in response to requests from ingram high school students who experienced a school shooting themselves a couple years ago and now I think there is skepticism on the more conservative council toward programming that funding we'll see if it you know what

[00:07:23] happens but I mean again I think this is like this is the more conservative council saying listening to one part of the community's requests and saying yes do that and listening to another part of the community's requests which is for you know mental health help for these kids

[00:07:39] and saying uh I don't know that might be a waste of money and so it just I hate to be cynical about the reactions to school shootings among politicians but it's sometimes very hard not

[00:07:49] to be because they keep happening and the action doesn't come afterwards so I don't know that's just that's my slightly cynical cynical read on you know all the statements regardless of what Alexis

[00:08:00] rink said on twitter it seems like your cynicism on both sides the sundeep and the erica side only goes in one direction that would be my observation so yeah I do hear a lot of cynicism

[00:08:10] but only towards the the conservative council on your part and and sundeep cynicism only goes towards Alexis rink's tweet which you wish to say it's only a I'm saying I'm saying if if if Alexis

[00:08:23] ring is for taking actions like the community is asking for now and and is going to be able to kind of take those positions and run on that in the city council race this year that does represent

[00:08:38] a significant shift on the part of candidates running on the left and and and I welcome that I think that's a if that is a shift I think it's a positive shift it's a shift towards I think

[00:08:50] a more sane approach on the part of Seattle so sundeep you you you left out part of her tweet which is about the fact that the city council is not budgeting for things it's something that

[00:08:59] erica's brought up in the context of mental health counseling so we have a council that's made a lot of promises about public safety but they've also made promises it seems like about you know no read my lips no new progressive taxes or something close to that and we're

[00:09:14] facing massive budget deficits so what I'm wondering is you know is the progressive left position which is pro public safety pro tax closer to the center of where the city is right now

[00:09:26] then your lane then the then the the current council's lane which is we're going to fix these problems but we're going to fix it with less money maybe I mean it sort of depends I mean

[00:09:36] I mean there is I think general support for spending on public programs right and and support for for progressive taxation in Seattle sure as a general kind of kind of axiom or truism I think

[00:09:51] that's right right but it but it but the devil's in the details on this stuff and let's talk about the 20 million dollars right I think we should unpack the story of that 20 million dollars

[00:10:01] because I think it's actually a story of sort of performative bullshit from the previous council right it wasn't just that it was the 11th hour this was a sort of classic shama savant last minute

[00:10:14] sort of amendment she threw out to raise the jumpstart tax my 20 million dollars she did it as part of the budget process on the way out the door last fall this was not something that had been vetted with either the city department that does education stuff nor with

[00:10:29] the school district itself about whether this funding was usable or whether this was a priority or something they needed it was something she threw out I think largely because her point was she wanted

[00:10:42] to jack the jumpstart tax right and she needed to spend it on something and there happened to be some young activist kids who had experienced that trauma at Ingram High School who had been

[00:10:51] suggesting fund more mental health counseling but it didn't go through any of the you're at any point let me just finish my point and then you can get it it didn't go through any

[00:10:59] fucking ordinary process right it was classic savant it was just like her amendment to like cut best salary by 40 percent and she pushed it just any time we could stop talking about savant

[00:11:10] it's her amendment it's her fucking amendment it passed six to three a super majority so and after it passed the city my understanding is the city talked to the school district and asked them

[00:11:21] can you deploy this funding the school district said we didn't ask for this we're not sure we can use the money in fact the mayor came close to money doesn't go to the school district he goes to the

[00:11:29] department of education but it's but it's funding it's funding people in the schools right the point was to fund mental health counselors in the schools the school district said they weren't sure that they could absorb them the mayor almost vetoed it again there was no process there

[00:11:44] was zero okay so I'd like to go back to my question if we can turn off the sun deep show for half a second like I just want to know apart from your sort of you know savant

[00:11:56] derangement syndrome what is your objection to adding this money to jumpstart first of all and what do you think that the council has done besides voting six to three for this amendment that is bad on that is counterproductive on addressing you know mental health in schools

[00:12:16] or school safety I think there's probably quite valuable things that could be done to address better address mental health in the schools this wasn't it this was just well we don't know I mean

[00:12:28] it's it's unprogrammed money it can be programmed for any purpose in mental for mental health in the schools it is not programmed for you know for programming mental health counselors in specific schools starting tomorrow that is one reason why it hasn't been programmed yet and it

[00:12:41] hasn't been spent yet sitting there and so the question now is I mean the council has a choice they can program it and spend it or they can you know pass an amendment to the budget to roll back this

[00:12:54] tax or to you know potentially put it to some other use and it sounds to me like you're saying they should roll back this tax uh and not spend this money in schools what I think that is I

[00:13:05] think that is a position that you have to justify by something other than I don't like Shama Sawant and this was a typical Shama Sawant thing it's not just that it was a completely uncooked

[00:13:16] it was not done in collaboration with the here we are with the school district what do you want to do now at least previously last fall before you're in the present what do you want to do

[00:13:26] the school district told them that they probably couldn't use the money so here so I don't want them to waste 20 million dollars right I mean I don't know they should have a conversation with the school district about whether this money is actually deployable and usable

[00:13:39] is there some other purpose that might better address some of the some of the concerns around this stuff again nobody did any homework on this right there's no planning here in the present

[00:13:48] we're not in Shama Sawant can't hurt you now she's not here so I guess and maybe they need to go back to the drawing board on some of this stuff rather than just like you know ratifying the

[00:14:00] kind of half half ass bullshit that like the last city council did because it was half ass bullshit and it's kind of really indicative of bad governance okay so the policy direction that

[00:14:11] you want the council to take now is to roll it back it sounds like I'm saying bring forward a proposal that makes sense and that has some meat on the bones and if it makes sense then fund it

[00:14:21] absolutely but you can't just say we're just gonna I mean you can but it's shitty governance yeah I hear you complaining about Sawant but I don't hear you like saying answering the

[00:14:32] questions I think David started with which is like what do we do and you're saying give back 20 million dollars and I like that's not a solution that's just saying I don't like I'm not sure

[00:14:42] about that that you know is that the most appropriate spending that where the city could supplement funding for Seattle schools I mean if there's some clear mental health need that the city could help fund then we should have that conversation and fun there is a clear mental

[00:15:01] health need in schools it seems like mental health I mean there's more than a mental health need in schools we know that there's a there's a massive need whether or not it's the best approach

[00:15:11] to spending 20 million dollars on school shootings I have no fucking idea I mean it seems to me that maybe it's not like I have no idea I mean nobody's done their work on this right nobody

[00:15:21] does no I mean again there's no there's no there was no homework that happened here no preparation no groundwork no planning so okay but you're just repeating yourself I'm saying what

[00:15:34] do we do now right and I just find it's so frustrating that like that your frustration with the politics what like has eclipsed your ability to see like what we should actually like what is the positive

[00:15:46] here what can we do with 20 million dollars for mental health for students and I just hear you saying that well I don't have a bad way honestly honestly if we're going to spend 20 million

[00:15:55] dollars of Seattle City money for the schools I think maybe the more pressing valuable need is going to be to kind of ameliorate some of what it looked like to be really really large-scale teacher layoffs that are coming right right now the conversation is about closing 20 elementary

[00:16:13] schools in the school district but when you look at the budget numbers on that it doesn't even remotely come close to addressing the school district's deficit so what we're really looking

[00:16:21] at here is large-scale teacher layoffs that are coming on the pike that the school district is sort of hemming and hawing around but that's just the reality of what they're going to have to do to

[00:16:31] close their budget even if they get a kind of 30 to 50 billion dollar subsidy out of the state which is not at all clear that they're going to so you know I don't know maybe the conversation

[00:16:41] needs to be out funding more teacher positions or you know but again we need to do the work right about figuring out how best to use the limited resources we have in our disposal

[00:16:52] I mean I'd say that's the work that that is ongoing right now I mean the idea was to have deal the Department of Education and Early Learning program this this funding but you know the council

[00:17:02] conversation right now is not how do we set up a way of doing the work and how do we set up you know a new process or whatever it's you know was this a bad idea it should we undo this

[00:17:12] and I'm not seeing any positive solutions except for as you mentioned more cops and what is it metal detectors this was outside the school so the metal detectors presumably wouldn't have made any difference and I think some of the other incidents have been outside of school not the

[00:17:27] Ingram one that was inside a bathroom I think well look I've been here I would call them rumors I have no idea whether it's true or not but I've certainly been hearing from folks

[00:17:36] that there's a lot of talk in the Garfield community among parents and among people in the school's community that there is a kind of ongoing problem there at that particular school with some students bringing weapons including guns into that school right and so so I think that's

[00:17:53] Garfield we not just Garfield because obviously that happened in Ingram too right well yeah right I mean somebody got you know there was a tragedy in Ingram a year or two ago but I think that is what's fueling the talk and the request from community members saying

[00:18:07] we need metal detectors because I think there's a perception that there is a recurring problem with guns actually being brought onto that campus I will say not to go back to Alexis Rink's tweet

[00:18:20] but as David mentioned she also talked about other things that she heard from community members saying that they want and in addition to the two things that Sandeep mentioned there's also

[00:18:31] speed bumps which you know I don't have any data on whether that would help you know reduce the number of you know I don't know drive-by shootings or people being able to get away quickly

[00:18:41] and mental health supports and those were the four things that she mentioned so these are things that the community is saying they need we don't we don't sort of directly translate community meeting comments into policies that you know there does have to be analysis

[00:18:56] and all that stuff if it ends up being like metal detectors do some good then fine but that's a very small part of the problem that is causing children to bring guns to school and you know and if we

[00:19:10] just sort of say if we dismiss 20 million dollars potentially we do it's you know varies from year to year for mental health supports because it wasn't done in a way that we you know like

[00:19:20] or it seemed rushed or whatever and say well what what else can we put that to I mean I think that's a real wasted opportunity and I think that that money really could do some good and you

[00:19:28] know if the council wants to roll up its sleeves and start working on that that would be amazing I mean I you know I don't have a problem with that I just don't think that you know the solution to

[00:19:39] sort of feeling irritated about how it happened is to just you know put it back in the bucket when I hear you talking Erica it's like I think they should allocate way more than 20 million

[00:19:49] dollars for mental health in Seattle public schools you know well beyond this issue but in the back of my mind I'm kind of going how much of that is going to prevent or help people who are

[00:20:01] potential like school shooters like I guess I mean it's impossible to to know that yeah that's the problem with mental health spending we should absolutely be spending it I guess it's kind of

[00:20:10] like what bothers me is when the NRA talks about gun policy they too talk about mental health and you know I'm not sure that it solves the problem I guess is what I would say is that deeply disingenuous on their part no I'm not being disingenuous

[00:20:23] no no on their part of the NRA's part I get you I guess but what I'm trying to get at is is there more that we could be doing that's directly related to guns in schools you know if it's

[00:20:32] metal detectors you know um and other stuff I don't know what it is I mean I would say like or do we our schools in America are you know militarized zones now there are metal detectors

[00:20:43] in many schools we don't happen to have them in Seattle school shootings happen everywhere because there are too many guns in the hands of people that get into the you know of adults

[00:20:52] they get into the hands of kids do I know the solution to gun violence in America I do not but I mean I think it involves gun control for sure I don't think that just because metal

[00:21:02] detectors are like an obvious thing we can do that it's necessarily going to prevent the next school shooting I mean as you said this one happened outside the school you know kids take drills to you know hide from school shooters they are you know hyper vigilant

[00:21:17] against the possibility of school shooters now and it's definitely not preventing school shootings and it's not necessarily preventing deaths and it is I think you know contributing to the mental health trauma that we also have to deal with sure there's no pardon my magic bullet

[00:21:31] here right right I mean but there's there's no magic wand um let me put it that way to that that is going to assure us that we can we can completely stop or or or stave off the next

[00:21:43] tragic incident like this but obviously there's going to be a range of responses that need to be looked at depending on whatever the you know the the assessment is in particular condition

[00:21:53] we should do that homework and kind of figure that out but coming back to the larger point here I mean we do have a mental health sort of crisis issue it's not at all clear that

[00:22:01] this incident was rooted in a mental health condition we don't know yet who the shooter was or what their their situation was at all you know maybe it maybe it's sort of unrelated to

[00:22:11] the kind of mental health crisis that we are seeing among teenagers in America right now but remember in terms of the city and the 20 million bucks the city's facing a what is it 250 million dollar deficit 260 thanks to the raises for police officers that gave them 24

[00:22:28] percent raises for the last three years yeah yeah 260 million dollar deficits so in that context there are going to be some very very hard trade-offs right that the decisions are going to have to get

[00:22:40] made about where the limited resources that the city does have at its disposal goes right and so is that 20 million dollars to the school district the right way to spend that money maybe it is

[00:22:52] I'm not saying well that's what it was passed for so it's not just a select yeah but again purpose well I mean it was a tax increase which this council has said you know many of them have said they are against any tax increases so it would be

[00:23:05] somewhat just ingenuous and I don't I don't know that anybody's even proposing this but for them to then say well we'll take that tax increase though and we'll take it away from what it was dedicated

[00:23:14] to and we'll spend it on something else I mean I think that that would be pretty hypocritical well again I think it was passed as a tax increase because that was Chama so once real

[00:23:24] intent is she just wanted to jump the jumpstart tax and was looking for something to spend it on and you know again hadn't talked to anybody hadn't done any work on it you know as I understand what

[00:23:33] the school district told the city after it passed they weren't sure that this was money that was going to be effectively deployable so anyway we'll see maybe that's changed well I think you know what what I found disheartening and I think you know maybe disheartening is too strong

[00:23:48] a word what I found a little concerning like listening to the city council talk about this stuff today is that you know I mean they were saying stuff like you know I don't want to pick

[00:23:57] on Joy Hollingsworth Garfield's in her district but you know she was saying stuff about like I don't like all the stuff I see in parks with the fentanyl and the you know and the drug use and the

[00:24:08] you know just the people you know passed out or whatever and that's a position to take and you know the council mostly shares that position you know but she was saying that this is you

[00:24:17] know this is bad for our kids I'm not sure that of the you know the causes of the school shooting in at Garfield that I would put that very high on the list you know if you're talking about

[00:24:28] 12 people at 12th and Jackson or people on 3rd Avenue which kept coming up downtown I mean it that's why it just felt like like I don't know like are you guys serious about doing something

[00:24:39] about this or do you just want to get up on your hobby horses and say you know we need more cops at 3rd and Pike and we need more cops at 12th and Jackson I mean if that's what you're saying

[00:24:48] say that but don't don't don't make it about Garfield because I don't think that it is well maybe we need more cops at 23rd Union right I mean where you know apparently there are there is community concern about rising crime around that I think probably councilmember Hollingsworth

[00:25:01] is is channeling some of that as Alexis Rink was in her tweet yeah and I and I think that this council talks a lot about wanting things to be evidence-based and you know look at the

[00:25:11] data and you know and all this stuff and I would say let's look at the data do cops in schools or around schools actually produce a number of school shootings in America I mean

[00:25:21] we've got like I said lots of schools that are in this country that are way more militarized than the ones in Seattle and that was you know policy choice on our part and you know and I'm not sure

[00:25:31] that I see a reduction unfortunately in school shootings everywhere else in America I mean look at you Valde like did did cops in showing up there did they help I mean it just I don't

[00:25:42] see the direct connection necessarily between sort of hyper policing at a school and and preventing school shootings at that same school I think you're probably right it's sort of like politics removed cops from schools and maybe politics brings cops back into schools but whether or not

[00:25:59] I doubt cops in schools prevents shooting it might make people feel more safe in some other way I don't know or maybe less safe I mean look we can argue all day long about what is

[00:26:10] the driver right of these sorts of tragic violent incidents happening at our schools whether it was the one in Ingram or the one that just happened here at Garfield I mean I think you could make

[00:26:19] an argument too that there's been you know I mean when you look at the performance of the school district right you know a huge spike in absenteeism right really significant declines in academic

[00:26:33] performance from you know a significant swaths of the of the school age population in the city rising levels of mental health issues with with kids today I think there's been a rollback of you know in the name of equity about disciplinary procedures for sort of minor infractions about

[00:26:50] schools could that play into I I mean I think we can depending on our core of ideological you know pre-supposition we can argue about this stuff all day long but

[00:26:58] I think at the end of the day we got to come together and figure out a plan and move forward on it I mean I'm with Erica that there's a need here and we should figure out how best to

[00:27:06] address it I just don't think like appropriating money first and then you know for anyway you know what I think dwelling on the on the decision of the past that has been made and is over and done

[00:27:20] with is is just counterproductive what are we gonna do now what are we gonna do now moving forward that's different than what we've done in the past and I'm just I'm not hearing a lot

[00:27:28] of that I'm hearing you know we don't hear thoughts and prayers so much in the city of Seattle but we do hear a lot of we need to do and not a lot of we need to do what well let's leave it there

[00:27:38] she's Erica C Barnett he's Sandeep Kashik I'm David Hyde our editor is Quinn Waller thanks to everybody so much for listening