Is Seattle Still In Its Backlash Era?

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome into the latest edition of Seattle Nice. I'm David Hyde, and today we're talking about the biggest election of the year, the one that everybody is talking about nonstop, perhaps the biggest election of our lifetimes. And I'm speaking of course

[00:00:22] about the race for Seattle's citywide C position eight with this August 6th primary coming up. Erica C Barnett of Publicola is here to help us understand what's going on. Hi, Erica. Hello. Also political consultant Sandeep Kaushik is here. Hi, Sandeep. Hey, David.

[00:00:38] So I thought to start it off, I just mentioned these endorsements in keeping with Seattle tradition, the times endorsed the most centrist among the candidates, Tanya Wu. She's the incumbent. And from the left, the stranger has endorsed Alexis Mercedes

[00:00:53] Rink and is all about meeting Tanya Wu this year, who they write may not be the evilest of masterminds on the city council, but she represents a dependable vote for big business landlords and the mega wealthy. And there's plenty of that on the city council already.

[00:01:07] So the stranger, you know, in some ways sounding remarkably pragmatic, I thought this year endorsement. But on Rink, they describe her as the strongest most consistent fighter for progressive revenue. So let's start with that endorsement Erica. Who is Alexis Mercedes Rink?

[00:01:24] Yeah, funny. You're making me read the stranger's endorsement, which I had not done yet. But I read the Seattle Times endorsement just before we started recording. But to answer your question, Alexis Mercedes Rink that most recently she worked on the King County

[00:01:40] Regional Homelessness Authority's efforts to sort of bring together all of the suburban cities in kind of a regional alliance that is obviously being tested as we talked about a bunch on this podcast. But she has a history of activism as that blurb you just read mentions.

[00:01:59] She is definitely the more progressive candidate in this race. I would not call her a raving lefty, as I'm sure Sandeep will. But she's a graduate of the Evans School and an advocate, I think for progressive revenue, for alternatives to policing and against sweeps, particularly

[00:02:17] in the winter of homeless encampments. And so I would say she's a pragmatic left advocate to Tanya Wu's. I don't know about a solid vote for anything considering the council hasn't really voted on anything yet. But I know Tanya Wu is going to be supporting

[00:02:34] some of the efforts to roll back worker protections and I believe the minimum wage for restaurant workers, which is supposed to finally go into effect this year. So definitely a big contrast between those two candidates and we're talking about them, I think because

[00:02:47] they are generally regarded as the two that are most likely to go through. Yeah. So the stranger endorsing Alexis Rink and not the other two progressive lane candidates Sandeep Transit Rider and activist Sonatina Sanchez or Tech Vet Tariq Youssef. So what

[00:03:05] do you think of this? Well, please respond to Erica, but also what do you think of this stranger endorsement? Well, I think it was probably not that close a call. I think Alexis Rink is running by

[00:03:16] far the strongest campaign of the three left lane candidates and is probably the most credentialed of them though. I don't think she's held public office in the past. But I wouldn't say that Alexis is a raving lefty. I mean, but she is a pretty strong

[00:03:32] lefty. I had a chance to meet Alexis and get coffee with her and I thought she's quite bright and you know, I think there is a pragmatic streak there in her work at the King County

[00:03:47] Homelessness Authority. She was in charge of doing the outreach to a lot of the suburban cities and their elected officials and so had to kind of work closely with folks outside of Seattle to kind of sell the whole idea of the authority to those folks. So I

[00:04:03] think that's been helpful experience for her and you know, a credential that she talks about. I mean, but of course there's a larger issue about the performance of KCRHA that could turn out to be a liability for her as well. But nonetheless, I mean, I think she's very

[00:04:15] as Erica said, squarely in the left lane and has adopted a set of policy positions that put her there and that potentially could become issues in a general, you know, general election. I very much assume that she's going to be coming through the primary along with Tanya Wu.

[00:04:32] I think that, you know, this election ultimately and in the in the general election when this will also obviously be the election that everyone is thinking of first. I think that the issue is going to be, you know, can sort of the right lane or centrist people

[00:04:51] like Sandeep and it's not even not just saying that you're working on Tanya's campaign or anything but but you know, but can can they sort of charge Alexis and make it stick that

[00:05:01] she is, you know, a radical and that she is kind of, you know, the ghost of Shamma Sawaand which, you know, the sort of more conservative members of the council love to sort of resurrect as often as possible. Or, you know, if she can

[00:05:17] demonstrate that she is a pragmatic person who would bring a little bit of balance to a council that, you know, number one has very, very little experience. And, you know, Sandeep, you were sort of using these adjudge to have like, you know, bright and has a

[00:05:29] couple of credentials. I mean, let's compare her to the incumbent who is only the incumbent by virtue of being appointed after losing her election. She got a promotion to the city wide position after losing a district election. Tanya

[00:05:44] Wu. So her credentials are, you know, based in community advocacy for the Chinatown International District community, you know, and I guess owning an apartment building that she describes as, you know, providing affordable

[00:05:57] housing, the Louisa Hotel. But I mean, as far as her voting record, as far as her, you know, advocacy on the city council and city wide advocacy before that, you know, her literal voting record, as in she didn't vote for many, many

[00:06:12] elections, you know, in Seattle. I think that, you know, that on the balance, you know, Alexis has more credentials if we were just running them against each other and Tanya didn't have the benefit of incumbency.

[00:06:25] All right, Sandeep, I want you to respond to that. But let's also bring up the fact that the Seattle Times endorses Tanya Wu this time around as they have in the past, saying she shows up and listens to members of her community,

[00:06:38] has according to them at least the kind of hands-on experience that will make her an effective city council member. They seem to like her better on issues like housing affordability, public safety, where they say she prioritizes uniformed police response more than her opponents and homelessness.

[00:06:55] They also like her on taxes because she's so reluctant to raise them sort of the opposite of the stranger endorsement. But just what about that point that Eric is making to start at least? She's, yeah, she's sort of in the

[00:07:07] council, but is she really all that well qualified? Well, she ran a very, she ran last year, ran a very close race in District Two against Tammy Morales lost by really just a few hundred votes in what is, you know, arguably the most progressive district in the city.

[00:07:25] Districts two and three are are much more progressive than the rest of the city, but this is a city-wide race this time. And so she has been serving on the council since she was appointed in January.

[00:07:39] So, yeah, I think, you know, she does, as Erica said, have a long history of community involvement and activism in the Chinatown International District area. She shows up to stuff. So, yeah, I mean, you know, she's qualified.

[00:07:52] I think Alexis is qualified to run too. Neither of them I don't think are outside the, you know, mainstream of the kind of folks that run incredibly for the city council, right? I mean, I think they're both perfectly

[00:08:05] qualified to run given our previous history. Look, I think this race in some sense is falling into a really familiar pattern already, which is the kind of left versus center left divide that, you know, has grown quite

[00:08:20] deep and wide in Seattle. I also think to some extent it's turning into, or I think the left wants to turn it into a broader sort of proxy debate about the performance of the current city council, right? I think to some

[00:08:34] extent it's not going to be as much about Alexis and her credentials for some folks on the left as it is about kind of electing Alexis or trying to do so as a way to indict the current city council and to say that they...

[00:08:48] Gee, that sounds awfully familiar. It seems like we've got about six council members using exactly that argument. And I believe you were making that argument. And deservedly so because the last council, like, fucked a lot of shit up and frankly, like, were far more

[00:09:03] responsive to activist communities than they were to their own fucking constituents and they paid the price. Well, I would say that the pro-pop community is also an activist community. You may not consider that the sort of, you know, all-fouts-all-the-time

[00:09:17] activists will hold on. Let me talk, Sandeep. You're criticizing the quote unquote, the left, whatever that means to you for making this a proxy battle in your mind, you know, and that, you know, it's not really about either of these candidates. It was exactly the

[00:09:31] tactic that your side, the more conservative side used to elect, you know, I would say the least experienced city council, certainly in my time living here, but in a very, very long time, and we're seeing the results of that. I mean, they're still in the middle

[00:09:44] of orientation now, you know, at the end of July as we're recording this and I haven't passed any substantive legislation. So I don't know. I mean, maybe it's time to have a referendum on whether the city of Seattle likes a council that, you know,

[00:09:59] needs a quarter of its term to get up to speed. And, you know, their only action so far, the only substantive stuff that they proposed is to undo the stuff that the last council did. So,

[00:10:10] you know, I think that the city, you know, may well be or some considerable number of people in the city may be sick of that. Well, by your argument then we should reelect Tanya Wu because Alexis Rink hasn't served in any office and God, we can't

[00:10:22] get up to speed. So, you know, we're not actually in the four to spend the four to six months it's going to take Alexis Rink to get up to speed about city government like, like, I actually don't think I actually don't think it's

[00:10:31] normal for the council to take. We're not actually in four to six months we're getting into the eighth month now that long to get up to speed you usually, you know, in the past or ideally elect people that have some experience coming into

[00:10:43] the council have some familiarity with city issues have some familiarity with like what are city departments how somebody who's coming, you know, from having worked in another government structure who knows how this stuff works. I think it's terrible that it's taken that they're still doing

[00:10:56] orientation. I think they should have done this stuff before they got elected before they ran for office to decide like if they even understood what the job is but here we are. Are you saying that Alexis Rink is going to bring the

[00:11:07] stellar governing skills exhibited by the King County regional homelessness authority in Seattle because God fucking help us if that's the case right? I mean, that's I mean, that's ridiculous. That's not what I said at all. That's like saying anyone who worked for the city is exactly

[00:11:22] the same thing as somebody who worked for Marissa Rivera or whatever. I've been trying to be less less provocative here but you keep pushing me in that direction because I keep going keep going every minute. First of all, I don't

[00:11:35] accept Erica's premise that there's still some kind of orientation going on. There's a lot of stuff going on behind that seems at the city council they have fast legislation. Contra to your narrative of the do nothing city council. What's the substantive? Okay, tell me one.

[00:11:50] Tell me one piece of substantive legislation that isn't just undoing the work of a previous city council. That they passed a major police contract and pay raise. I mean, they didn't negotiate that contract. So now you're making excuses to say that they didn't

[00:12:04] pass legislation. Wait, so you're saying that it is an achievement for the city council which always adopts the SPOG contract that is put before them after it's been negotiated. It's a major achievement that they didn't vote it down out of keeping with any previous

[00:12:18] city council. They didn't take a radical action. I think getting that police contract in place was an important prerequisite for the police recruitment work that both the council and the mayor think is a priority and that I agree with them is a priority.

[00:12:35] I mean, I think that was the... Yeah, you've lowered the bar like to the floor, so I mean. They passed a police contract that somebody else negotiated. Wow. So what have they done? What have they initiated and done themselves?

[00:12:47] There's a number of items that are in the works I think that we are going to be seeing coming out of this new city council soon, whether people like what they want to do or not is a sort of different question and we can argue about it.

[00:13:00] I'm not talking about whether I like it. I'm asking you to name one. Illegal street racing, Erica. That's it. No more illegal street racing. You're trying to sort of wave away anything they've done because... Well, okay. Let's talk about that.

[00:13:15] I don't think a $500 fine for a crime that already carries a $5,000 fine at the state level is doing something and I don't think it's going to do a goddamn thing as we've talked about before. So yeah, I don't think that is particularly substantive

[00:13:28] and they also didn't initiate it. Can you name something that the council has initiated that isn't about just undoing something that the last council did? I don't want to get two down the down the rabbit hole in this, Sandeep, but you're sort of...

[00:13:43] You're making the case that this council is effective and I am not hearing it. Sandeep, since you bring up questions sort of related to taxation, I'm not so sure that your framing is right, that the left is just running against the current council and its actions.

[00:13:59] One of the substantive things they brought up is we're going to raise progressive revenue. This council is not going to do that. And Tanya Wu among these candidates, although I'm not sure that she's completely ruled out the possibility of raising progressive revenue entirely seems to be

[00:14:14] clearly the most anti-tax candidate running and in fact that's why the Frank Bledin led Seattle Times editorial recommends her. Yeah, she has not completely ruled it out. She said that she would look at taxes as a last resort. Right? And this is going to be tested

[00:14:29] because we're going into a budget process that I think is going to be a pretty deep budget hole for the first time in quite a long time is facing a pretty deep budget hole, $250 million plus that if they're going to balance

[00:14:43] that budget without any kind of new revenue is going to be I think quite a challenging process not just for the council but for the mayor as well. So we'll see there. And to your sort of point about the politics around progressive revenue, I do think

[00:14:57] that the largest political in Seattle on those kinds of issues like progressive taxation, the more economically focused issues where they really get themselves into trouble and into kind of toxic political areas and on things like public safety and you know homeless encampments you know and things like that.

[00:15:17] Right? And so that's going to be the battle. The left wants to make this a conversation about progressive taxation. I think that the center left is going to come up and say no, Alexis Rink represents exactly the same policies on public safety and on homelessness that the voters

[00:15:33] quite decisively rejected in the last couple of elections. They can say that if they're not listening to what she says. Well I will give Alexis credit. If I can very quickly just to respond to you I will give Alexis credit that she seems

[00:15:47] to have moved on public safety on some stuff. So one of the substantive things that Alexis is running on is specifically I mean related to progressive revenue you know the flip side of that is protecting jumpstart which you know has a spending plan.

[00:16:05] It's supposed to go to housing. It's supposed to go to the Green New Deal. It's supposed to go to small businesses and you know when we are looking immediately at the budget and a $260 million dollar plus budget hole I mean these are these are two

[00:16:20] sides of the same coin and she's saying we have to go to the city council. So I would say that the city council is going to try to take a new tech jumpstart which is something that the city council I'm sure is going to attempt to you know

[00:16:32] deeply and radically raid this year you know in order to eliminate the need for you know quote unquote for tax increases I would say she's thinking thoughtfully about this stuff as opposed to just saying you know no new taxes or taxes as

[00:16:44] a last resort you know as Tanya said knowing full well that the council is not going to propose new taxes and that is something they ran on is no new taxes. So just to summarize it's clear from the endorsements and from what the candidates are saying that Alexis

[00:16:58] Rank would like to raise progressive revenue more so than Tanya Wu does and there's some disagreements between you about exactly you know what that means but that's a basic difference between them we know which by the way is the difference nationally so I'll just point out between you

[00:17:14] know what I think of as the Democratic Party and the Republican Party in some ways it's interesting to see such a clear cut difference here in Seattle over taxes you know with the Chamber of Commerce the current council and their champion candidate Tanya Wu on one side

[00:17:30] and the wacky progressive left on the other side you know I mean on taxes I would say we really do have a pretty clear cut sort of conservative versus liberal split on this issue or if we don't how so not you know because I

[00:17:46] don't see the national Democrats talking about how they were and to be clear we're not talking about taxes on yeah these are progressive revenue right we're not talking about yeah we're not when we say progressive revenue that doesn't mean sales taxes on everybody or property taxes on everybody

[00:18:00] it's referring to things like capital gains tax on the very very wealthy yeah it just means like a real weak point for what you call your side in this election look if we were in a vacuum and there was no history here

[00:18:14] of recent history in the city of Seattle maybe that point would be relevant but it's not because what the current council is responding to is a period of substantial public sector growth where they pass things like a very big new tax the jumpstart tax very recently

[00:18:30] right the jumpstart tax is a you know three hundred million dollar a year progressive tax that was passed in the last few years and so I think that if you want to make the argument for the for the current council and why they're their tax sensitive

[00:18:46] or tax shy what they're saying is we've had a period of significant increases in taxation and rather than going back to that well as the first thing we need to look at the spending side of municipal governance which hasn't really had any kind of trims to it

[00:19:04] in more than a decade right to be clear the jumpstart tax again you're saying going back to a well I mean taxes I suppose are well but again you're talking about a tax on companies that are the wealthiest companies in the region

[00:19:18] and the ones that pay their workers the absolute most is not a tax on workers it's a tax on companies so I think we need to like be kind of clear about what we're talking about these are positions that the Democratic party

[00:19:30] would take and that you know the Republican party is absolutely against as David said yeah they hate capital gains tax they hate taxes on the rich so that's and you're saying that because there is a tax on the rich or rich companies not even on the rich

[00:19:44] there shouldn't be more because we don't want to go back to that well I think that the concept of progressive taxation for a little history was that it was not that we were going to pass one and be one and done it was here is a

[00:19:56] suite of possible taxes that would not harm working people in the same way that sales and property tax do if I was the current city council I would not have put as strong a marker down about not looking at the review side of the equation given the

[00:20:10] size of the budget hold that they were facing but you know I'm not on the city council and and no one was asking me about about about my position about how to sort of play the policy and politics game around the budget shortfall that the city's

[00:20:24] facing but I got to say both of you sound like freaking Ron Davis all of a sudden because you're kind of insinuating that that that you're going to have to say who Ron Davis is. Yeah sorry Ron Davis is the city council candidate from the last election cycle

[00:20:40] and Ron's a smart guy but he's extremely extremely polarized and he writes a sub stack or whatever and where he continuously makes the argument that anybody who isn't 100% in full fidelity to the left progressive agenda is somehow a MAGA Republican right and he compared

[00:20:58] their tax positions to the project 2025. So I'm not sure that we have the exact same positions on that but let me flip it then and ask just about the crime side before we end. Sandeep saying you know this is going to be a harder road even if she

[00:21:16] has sort of moderated her positions I'm talking here about Alexis Rink on crime and public safety or at least that for Tani Wu that's going to be a really strong point and she does have a lot of credentials on the public safety side I didn't

[00:21:32] know that I heard or I completely understand how Alexis Rink has according to you Sandeep sort of moderated her positions but I wanted to flip it to Erika and just kind of say do you think based on the last election that public safety

[00:21:46] is going to continue to be an issue that hurts progressives in Seattle? Yeah of course if we're voting not as what we want the whole council to be which I do think that that is a perfectly legitimate way to vote but you know if it's going to be

[00:22:02] an issue campaign yeah I think that hurts Alexis it helps Tanya absolutely I mean because I don't think that people have seen progress on sort of visible the visible signs of decaying public safety or I would decaying infrastructure for helping people in the city I don't think that

[00:22:20] Alexis's positions are particularly radical or far left you know I think she supports things like the care department which you know set up under Bruce Harrell as a co-responder with police which is you know pretty I mean it's more moderate as an idea

[00:22:36] than what most cities have done who have implemented alternative responses so I but I think that if people are just kind of looking at the very very high level you know stranger endorse this person Seattle Times endorse this other person I mean yeah that's their issue

[00:22:54] that's going to be a liability for the more progressive candidate for sure yeah and to be clear about what I was saying about Alexis and her positions on public safety I don't know that she's substantively changed her you know deviated from the left positions on public safety

[00:23:08] but rhetorically she has right she's talking about public safety in a noticeably different way than left lane candidates have been in previous election cycles I think to her political you know benefit right I mean I think she's softened some of the harder edges and how she talks

[00:23:28] about policing I mean I think Erica is absolutely right she's much more focused on things like alternatives to an armed response right which is huge totally agree has really broad support in the city of Seattle and if anything we've talked about this in previous episodes

[00:23:44] you know really hasn't gone far enough fast enough in the city I mean if there's any complaint about the care teams like it's being kind of woefully underutilized right now but you know after the Garfield shooting Alexis came out and said I'm hearing from the community

[00:24:00] who is traumatized by the shooting and they're talking about things like metal detectors at the school or more police officers in the school and she didn't dismiss that out of hand but say this is the this is what

[00:24:14] I'm hearing from the community and something we're going to have to have a conversation about that's a different tone that then we've heard in the past from some of the left lane candidates and I think she understands that the politics around public safety have been pretty

[00:24:28] pretty rough for people running in that left lane in previous election cycles and trying to kind of moderate it the other thing I'll say I just got a mailer from Alexis and I thought the message was sort of interesting the front page of it is tired of divisive

[00:24:42] Seattle politics question mark and then it says Alexis Mercedes ring uniting Seattle for real progress right that's kind of a page out of the the more kind of kind of moderate sort of rhetorical playbook I think then I've seen from left candidates in the past

[00:24:58] it's a you know the kind of let's get past the adversarial stuff unity one Seattle blah blah blah blah blah so anyway I do think there's been some rhetorical shifts on Alexis as part that are probably to her political benefit alright we'll leave it there

[00:25:10] that's it for another edition of Seattle nice she's Eric C Barnett he's Sandeep Koushik I'm David Hyde our editor is Quinn Waller and thanks everybody so much for listening