Election fever burns hot in two Seattle city council races

[00:00:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Hello and welcome to the latest edition of Seattle Nice, I'm David Hyde here with Erica

[00:00:15] [SPEAKER_01]: C Barnett of Publicola Erica.

[00:00:17] [SPEAKER_01]: I understand you're a little bit sleepy.

[00:00:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you're going to get a very mellow version of me this morning.

[00:00:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, we'll see.

[00:00:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Mellow Barnett.

[00:00:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Erica, the C is for mellow it turns out.

[00:00:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And also with us, Sandeep Kaushik, political consultant also overslept a little bit this morning.

[00:00:32] [SPEAKER_01]: It sounds like I did.

[00:00:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I did oversleep.

[00:00:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, this is this is the perils of doing this on a Sunday morning.

[00:00:38] [SPEAKER_01]: So I will see if I can enliven the two of you then this afternoon because or the story

[00:00:42] [SPEAKER_01]: is I'm already on.

[00:00:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I've had like 30,000 cups of coffee and I'm ready to go.

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_00]: So we're trying to wake us up.

[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to wake you up.

[00:00:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Do you hear that thing like Voltaire drank 35 cups of coffee per day?

[00:00:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:00:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I've never I've never fully believed.

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Total BS.

[00:00:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Today, we're going to be talking about the Seattle City Council races.

[00:01:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Ballots will be going out in just a couple of weeks.

[00:01:05] [SPEAKER_01]: So things are heating up in District One West Seattle.

[00:01:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Lisa Herbalt is gone.

[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Rob Socke challenging and Marin Costa challenging.

[00:01:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I want to hear about this race.

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Erica, you've been to some debates.

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Have you seen any District One debates yet?

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I have.

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I went to one at the South Seattle College last week in West Seattle and then

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_02]: also watched a pretty fiery debate on Seattle Channel that happened a couple

[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_02]: of weeks ago.

[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, there's a big contrast between these two candidates in terms of just

[00:01:37] [SPEAKER_02]: how they how they present themselves, the money that's behind them.

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Rob Socke has a very large independent expenditure campaign behind him.

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And that is the case in a lot of races.

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_02]: But but yeah, I mean, this is this is a weird one.

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, the most kind of experienced person on the City Council is leaving.

[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And you've kind of got two people with with not a lot of relevant experience,

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_02]: both tech people.

[00:02:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Socke is a meta attorney and Marin Costa is a former Amazon employee who

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_02]: organized over climate change and and got fired for later on unionizing

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_02]: or supporting union efforts.

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Before we get into it, you said this enticing thing about

[00:02:21] [SPEAKER_01]: events that occurred at one of the debates.

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Can you just tell us what was going on at this debate?

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, this is kind of a theme for Socke.

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_02]: He accuses Costa of doing things that she didn't do or mischaracterizes her,

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I would say. And one of those things that keeps coming up is that she

[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_02]: supports defunding the police.

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_02]: And what happened is there is a labor debate where she said something

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_02]: to the effect of the City Council was correct at the time in 2020 to say

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_02]: that they wanted to defund or to reduce the size of the police force by 50 percent

[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_02]: or police funding, whatever it was.

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And the thing that Sandeep is always on about.

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And so Socke has just hammered away at this and he does it, you know,

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_02]: in a way that is very insistent.

[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And then she always responds and says that is not what I said

[00:03:08] [SPEAKER_02]: and kind of explains her current position, which I think is a little bit

[00:03:11] [SPEAKER_02]: muddled in itself.

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And they go back and forth on this.

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_02]: But it is like the biggest thing that they that they tend to

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_02]: argue or that Socke tends to bring up and that they tend to end up debating.

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So that debate got a bit heated.

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's like 20 minutes long.

[00:03:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I encourage people to look it up because it's a good sort of flavor of these two candidates.

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I watched the Seattle Channel debate as well.

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, it was fairly heated and contentious.

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I think this is probably the most sort of contentious race of at least

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_00]: arguably the most contentious race of all of the city council races.

[00:03:45] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, Erica, to your point about where Marin stands on these issues,

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I think she's trying really hard to kind of moderate her message.

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Right. But I think substantively Rob has her on this stuff.

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I mean, it's not just that she said that it was the city council

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_00]: was right to pledge to defund the police by 50 percent of that forum

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_00]: and is now trying to walk it back.

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, she opposed the drug possession law.

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_00]: She's against any, you know, encampment, quote unquote,

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_00]: sweeps or cleanups or whatever.

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And so she's very much said very clearly that she's not against cleaning,

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_02]: but she is against sweeps.

[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And I do think saying whatever on that is a little bit she's against.

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_01]: She's against whatever.

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_01]: She's against any encampment removals where there's no offers of

[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_01]: supporter services, correct? Yeah. OK.

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, I think this is the classic sort of Seattle

[00:04:39] [SPEAKER_00]: sort of archit, archetypical race, I think, in that it is center versus left,

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_00]: right? And it's shaping up that way in terms of the spending to there.

[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_00]: This is going to be the classic business labor proxy battle.

[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_00]: As Erica mentioned, there's a significant IE for Rob Sokka

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_00]: that's mostly funded by business folks.

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_00]: But there was a IE filed on, I think, on Friday.

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm hearing labor is going to pour big money into backing Marin.

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_02]: So if you say this every every time and labor never has big money that they spend

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_02]: no, I mean, not compared to business in general.

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And we're going to talk about this in all the races.

[00:05:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Labor is never going to be outspending big business.

[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_02]: It's never happened.

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, in the twenty seven hundred and fifty in the twenty twenty one

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_01]: mayor's race, this is just factual.

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_01]: That yeah, the IE is for Lorena Gonzalez and the IE is for Bruce

[00:05:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Harold were roughly comparable. I mean, yeah, it was more than a million.

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_01]: So did you. So you're saying in this race, it's not going to be.

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you might be right. I just I just more than a million dollars in

[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_00]: the look, you want to go back to the twenty nineteen council races,

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_00]: unite here, one single labor union put seven hundred fifty thousand dollars

[00:05:44] [SPEAKER_00]: into a single council race.

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_00]: So the idea that labor doesn't spend or won't spend.

[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I do think labor's interest in these races this year has been kind of

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_00]: surprisingly sluggish or tepid.

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not been at the same level.

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_01]: All the money, all the big money so far is on the business side.

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_01]: It's on the right.

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_00]: But what I'm saying is you are going to see big significant money flow

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_00]: into the D one race from labor.

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, well, we've got we've got two weeks for that to be right or

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_02]: approximately three weeks. So we'll see.

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_00]: We'll I would not be surprised if they get to a hundred thousand plus

[00:06:15] [SPEAKER_00]: in that race, which is really significant.

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_00]: It will certainly be north of 50.

[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_01]: What is a hundred thousand dollars by you?

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_00]: It buys you.

[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it depends, but it buys you a lot of mail or it buys you a really

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_01]: how much mail, how much mail do I get to send for a hundred thousand dollars?

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Is it like three mailers or ten mailers?

[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, three, four mailers.

[00:06:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, or a significant digital ad buy or blow out.

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_01]: So you're predicting we'll see about three per side or whatever it is.

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Like you think I think I think we'll see roughly equal amounts of money

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_00]: get spent from an outside money in the D one race.

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_00]: This is the sort of marquee business labor battle, as I understand how it's

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_00]: shaping up. That's what I'm saying.

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_02]: So in the D one race just to just to be clear.

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_02]: So right now, as of Sunday, October 8th,

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_02]: the campaign for Rob Socke has raised over $155,000.

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's more than a hundred thousand that you're predicting.

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I know, but a bunch got spent in the primary, right?

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_00]: We're talking if you want to talk about the spending in the general, right?

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I think I think 70,000 bucks or something got spent in the primary.

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_02]: In fact, it was around 50,000.

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_00]: All right, all right.

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm looking at the page right now.

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, you have it in front of you.

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_00]: But I think we see six figure spending on both sides in the general

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_00]: election in the D one race and that marks it as unusual.

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_01]: So Lisa Herbold's represented West Seattle since 2015.

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_01]: She's associated with the sort of labor left of the council.

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Previously, she was a staffer for the left person on the council

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_01]: for years and years and years, Nicolacata, as Erica says,

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_01]: incredibly well versed in how city politics operates.

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_01]: She's walking away from this seat.

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Erica, what's the sort of feeling about

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Marin Costa as the potential replacement for her?

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And actually, my question for you is also political.

[00:08:00] [SPEAKER_01]: If West Seattle has been satisfied with Lisa Herbold for years and years and years,

[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_01]: why isn't it Marin Costa's race to lose?

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Because presumably she would be the closest to Lisa Herbold in this race.

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think Lisa has not been, you know, universally beloved in West Seattle.

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_02]: West Seattle is a very, I would say divided district.

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of different parts to it.

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_02]: The new district also includes, you know,

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_02]: it was redistricted includes Pioneer Square and some of, you know,

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_02]: some other areas that it didn't used to include.

[00:08:31] [SPEAKER_02]: But I don't think West Seattle is what I would call, you know,

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_02]: universally behind the labor left.

[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, I don't make predictions

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_02]: or I don't make predictions until you goad me into them.

[00:08:43] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm not going to make a prediction in this race.

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_02]: But I think, you know, I also think like Marin, I mean, as I said,

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_02]: at the beginning, you know, is is not someone with a lot of experience.

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_02]: She doesn't come to the table with, you know, a pile of really specific ideas

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_02]: the way that Lisa Herbold did by virtue of, you know, having been a staffer

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_02]: for almost 20 years and just being really versed in it.

[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And so and same thing with Saka.

[00:09:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, as I said, I think both of these are very inexperienced candidates

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_02]: and it shows in their debates to some extent.

[00:09:14] [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I don't think it's hers to walk away with.

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_01]: So, I deep same question to you.

[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Why isn't this in some ways Marin Costa's race to lose?

[00:09:22] [SPEAKER_01]: I guess if she's sort of Lisa's heir apparent in a way.

[00:09:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, well, first of all, Lisa Herbold victories in that district were close wins, right?

[00:09:30] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's not like Lisa dominated that district.

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And the bigger point here is West Seattle is not say Capitol Hill,

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_00]: right, in terms of its politics and its demographics.

[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And West Seattle is a district where Lisa Herbold, the incumbent,

[00:09:47] [SPEAKER_00]: her numbers tanked when she got on the on the defund abolition train

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_00]: in 2020 and, you know, and obviously it's backed away from it to some extent.

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_00]: But it caused significant political harm to her.

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's why you're seeing Rob Saka go so hard at Marin Costa

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_00]: trying to paint her, I think correctly, as very left on these issues.

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Because in that district, he sees a huge advantage over things like,

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, defunding the police or the, you know,

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Marin opposing a law against creating a misdemeanor penalty for for public drug use.

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Can I just say one really frustrating thing just universally about all these races

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_02]: is that consultants and the candidates themselves boil everything down

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_02]: to basically defund the police.

[00:10:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Did you support this one drug law?

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And are you going to sweep homeless people?

[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And there are all three of those issues are very nuanced.

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And also, there are a lot of other issues that are important.

[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And it just, you know, I don't know.

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe it's because I've been covering elections for so long now that,

[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, these these themes start to emerge every single time.

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's always what is the hot issue of that minute?

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's the only thing we talk about.

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's the only thing anybody talks about.

[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And it has nothing to do with the actual business of government

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_02]: because the drug law is passed.

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_02]: We didn't defund the police.

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we are doing that.

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't agree with that.

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just it's just very tiresome to have to listen to these three issues.

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm always happy when I go to debates that are like sponsored by community

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_02]: groups, when they ask about other stuff because there's a lot of other stuff

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_02]: that city council has to deal with than these past battles over

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_02]: over things that consultants like to talk about.

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_01]: One follow up question, Erica.

[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_01]: So in designing debate questions, one of the useful things

[00:11:38] [SPEAKER_01]: that sometimes happens is that moderators will actually design debates

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_01]: so that you can understand the differences between the candidates

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_01]: and candidates themselves and people like Sineadip oftentimes spend their

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_01]: time trying to figure out how to make it impossible for voters

[00:11:54] [SPEAKER_01]: to see any differences between the candidates.

[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_01]: So the candidates are coached to get in there and kind of cloud

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_01]: whatever clarity the moderators are trying to establish.

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_01]: So beyond those three issues, the drug ordinance, which by the way,

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's ridiculous to say that you can't ask questions about

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_01]: something that people just voted on as a way of illustrating the only question

[00:12:15] [SPEAKER_02]: that gets asked and it's the only fine.

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Fine.

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm getting to my question for you.

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm getting my question for you.

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_01]: OK, so homelessness and encampments is another one where you can see

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_01]: clear differences between the candidates and many of these races.

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_01]: So let's hear the great questions where we see the differences between the candidates.

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll give you a bunch.

[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Talk about what kind of cuts are you going to make in the upcoming budget,

[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_02]: given that there is going to be a 250 million potential shortfall?

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_01]: That's a good one.

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I talking about police, I think it's more interesting to ask, you know,

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_02]: what are your must haves in the next police contract?

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_02]: The council doesn't directly deal with that, except as part of the

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Labor Relations Policy Committee.

[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, they got screwed.

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_02]: The people of Seattle, I would argue, got kind of screwed on the last

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_02]: contract because the police guilt got everything they wanted.

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_02]: So what do you want in there?

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, the cultural issues at the police department.

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Can the can the department be reformed and can culture be changed from the bottom up?

[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I've heard all of those.

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Really? OK, well, yeah.

[00:13:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Now you're going to let me talk.

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_02]: KCRHA, should the should the KCRHA continue to be funded at current levels?

[00:13:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Does it need more funding?

[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_02]: What are we going to do about actual funding for homelessness, as opposed to

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_02]: are we going to sweep or not sweep climate change?

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_02]: What beyond vehicle electrification are you going to do?

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's just there's tons and tons of questions.

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm interviewing these candidates and I'm asking all those questions.

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so first of all, if there was a question I would ask, I wouldn't

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_00]: if I was moderating to try to get at the differences.

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I probably wouldn't ask a question about any specific issue.

[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I would ask a question about their general approach or philosophy of governance,

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_00]: right? And the way I would ask that question would be to say,

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_00]: so what is more important to you?

[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Is it standing strong for your values and your beliefs?

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Or do you feel like it's more important to

[00:14:02] [SPEAKER_00]: to sometimes make compromises and move forward legislation

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_00]: that may not have everything you want or may contain elements you don't like

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_00]: in the interest of kind of moving the ball forward and getting things done?

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I think that question gets to the heart of some of the divides

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_00]: between the candidates, which are it does. But the answers wouldn't.

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, I don't give an example.

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I tell me how you would coach people to answer that, Sonny.

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, I've seen a coachable question.

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And I will go back to this.

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_00]: This is I'll give a shout out to David

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Crowe and the former Crosscut reporters at Seattle Times.

[00:14:36] [SPEAKER_00]: But in 2019, did a story on the on the race between Sarah Nelson,

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Nikita Oliver and Breonna Thomas in the primary where he framed it exactly that

[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_00]: way, asking them their their thoughts on compromise.

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_00]: And I thought that was a really good revealing piece where Nikita Oliver

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_00]: basically basically said compromise is selling out.

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And what did Sarah Nelson say?

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Because I think that's you're saying she was she was pro-compromise.

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_02]: That's really interesting because she is one of the least pro-compromise

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_02]: city council members. Let's not go down.

[00:15:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Let's not go down.

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I think you say it's revealing and what it reveals is that she was not telling

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_02]: the truth. And so your example, I mean, you like Sarah Nelson,

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_02]: you supported her, but she is on the end of more eight one votes than

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Shamma Sawant. And so if you want to talk about a revealing question,

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that is the opposite of that.

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_02]: How would you actually vote? Oh, I think I think well,

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Sarah Nelson came in and had to take on an overly ideological left.

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And she did Alex.

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Metal to do it.

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's why she's one of the most popular members of the Alex Peterson.

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Alex Peterson, another relative conservative on the city council votes with his colleague.

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Conservative my ass.

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And like he's sorry.

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Look, I mean, you said Sarah Nelson is a great example.

[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_02]: She said she had compromised and she's a great compromiser.

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm saying I write about the city council and that's not true.

[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_02]: So in that case, she was saying something that was,

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, even if she felt it to be true at the time was false.

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't think it's a good example.

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_01]: That's all. OK, OK.

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Whatever debate questions get asked,

[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_01]: it's a lot better than reading the mailers that Sandeep will be sending out.

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Voters.

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not actually do it. Yeah, right.

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, not you.

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, not you.

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_01]: All right, so let's move on.

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Very nuanced, David.

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, just like your mailers against N.T.K.

[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I love it.

[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's see if we can get through.

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's let's see if we can get through one more race.

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Erica, I know you also were tracking debates in other races,

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_01]: including District 2, this one between incumbent Tammy Morales and challenger

[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Tanya Wu, what are you hearing that stands out in those debates?

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And I want the full flavor.

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I went to a debate at Columbia City Theater hosted by Rainier

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Valley Radio the other night last week.

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I mean, it was it was interesting.

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_02]: The the audience at that debate was

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_02]: quite animated.

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_02]: There was a woman who I called real estate Karen, you know, said she was a real

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_02]: estate agent and kept standing up and shouting sort of anti-Tammy invectives.

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think the crowd at one point kind of turned on the moderator because

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_02]: they were sort of going on and on about their own opinions about things.

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And it was just it was a really fun debate.

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And it was a good example of like, OK, I actually learned something about

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_02]: these candidates that it's almost despite the format of the debate.

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And one thing that I did learn, I mean, I think Tammy,

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Tammy is probably going to be if she's reelected the furthest left city council

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_02]: member representing Southeast Seattle.

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Tanya Wu came to prominence last year or maybe earlier this year.

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know. Time is a flat circle fighting the the Chinatown International

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_02]: District proposed expansion of a shelter in Soto and sort of organized

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_02]: CID residents against that expansion is known in the right wing media as

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_02]: homeless megaplex. So so she's a community organizer and you know,

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_02]: and I think she is to the right of Tammy considerably.

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I think they're they're contrast on all the usual issues in this race.

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_02]: But very much in contrast to Rob Saka and Maaren Costa, they were so nice to

[00:18:10] [SPEAKER_02]: each other. And I just I just want to point that out because it gave me

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_02]: more confidence, honestly, in both of these women to I mean,

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I've seen Tammy Morales work, but if Tanya Wu is elected,

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_02]: it gave me a little more confidence that it's not going to be she's not going

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_02]: to be someone who just is constantly trying to start conflicts on the council.

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, they were asked to ask each other questions and they both asked these,

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, frankly, pretty anodyne nice questions instead of lashing out at

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_02]: each other in the way that I could see Saka and Costa doing.

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, it was a rowdy debate.

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And I I do encourage people to go to like your local neighborhood debates

[00:18:48] [SPEAKER_02]: because those are more interesting.

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_00]: It's out of the way.

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_00]: It sounds like fun. I'm sorry, I missed that one.

[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_02]: It was fun. I mean, there's there's there's an open mic before it.

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, oh, God.

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_02]: But then I actually came away thinking like, oh, man,

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_02]: like all these debates should have open mics because it was just people kind

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_02]: of standing up and saying what they thought on an issue.

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And it was pretty interesting.

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. Wow.

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, well, we should invite real estate care under every debate.

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_00]: If you're listening, get in touch.

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_00]: So I think that it's interesting, Erica,

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_00]: your observation about the fact that the two candidates in D2 were really

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_00]: polite to each other in person because I think the tone of this in terms

[00:19:32] [SPEAKER_00]: of the media and air war sort of back and forth,

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I think the tone of this race has changed radically since before the primary,

[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_00]: which was very, very kind of soft focus.

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Tanya wasn't going after Tammy at all before the primary.

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think the results of the primary showed Tammy Morales looking like she was

[00:19:51] [SPEAKER_00]: in a strong place over 50 percent and and Tanya's campaign has really changed

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_00]: significantly since then.

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And she's been much more pointed about calling out Tammy Morales on,

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_00]: as you said, her being very clearly on the kind of kind of left edge

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_00]: of the of the city council on some of these hot button votes that you don't

[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_00]: like voters to think or talk about because they don't they don't work to your side.

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, so it's going to be interesting to see how that plays out.

[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Like the Wu campaign is going pretty hard at Tammy on things like Twelfth and Jackson.

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_00]: They did that press conference there.

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_02]: But the last what's with Sarah Nelson,

[00:20:32] [SPEAKER_02]: the great compromiser campaign against her colleague.

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And she has done in many races.

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And I will say I've seen that there is an IE file now in D2 that looks like it's

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_00]: going to go after Tammy on some of this stuff.

[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And you can, you know, so so I think this race too is going to

[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_00]: not so differently from D1 at least in terms of the the paid media battle

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_00]: is going to be pretty, pretty pitted.

[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And we'll see whether it works now.

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, D1 and D2 are very different districts, demographically and politically, right?

[00:21:06] [SPEAKER_00]: D2, where Tammy represents is a much more left, you know,

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_00]: the complexion of that district is much more historically left than, say,

[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_00]: West Seattle is.

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_00]: So we'll see whether it makes any difference.

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_00]: But I do think the the battle is on in that district.

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Even if it's not even a battle isn't on.

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just saying that like as somebody who who pays attention to the city

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_02]: council after the election and during all the time that they are actually on

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_02]: the city council as opposed to just like sort of sizing up the, you know,

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_02]: the paid media and the talking points.

[00:21:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I just think that the city council is quite toxic right now.

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Their relationships are very bad.

[00:21:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I think some of them have very strong

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_02]: dislike for each other.

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that this sort of reset where we're going to have a bunch

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_02]: of new council members is a risk and an opportunity and the opportunity

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_02]: is to sort of reset the relationships on the council.

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's going to depend on who gets elected, obviously.

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And if you have people who just want more conflict or if you have people

[00:22:05] [SPEAKER_02]: who actually want to work together despite despite some pretty stark differences.

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I totally agree with you that there we should do a whole episode

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_00]: on the interpersonal toxicity of the of the council right now because that

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_00]: is very, very real and it has a real world impact in terms of what

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_00]: gets done or doesn't get done or how the city is governed.

[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I think, you know,

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_00]: credit to both candidates, if they're able to maintain civility even in the midst

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_00]: of a heated, you know, raucous leg, like forum setting where the audiences

[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_00]: are pushing them, that's that's that's too their to their credit.

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_00]: But but as you say, I think in terms of the of the ideological differences

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_00]: in this race, they're pretty significant, right?

[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I agree to see that play out.

[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, why are people Sunday bothering to get involved in this race?

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_01]: This IE when in the primary Tanju Wu

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_01]: forty three percent to Tammi Morales is fifty two percent.

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_01]: It looks like, you know, she's it's got in the bag.

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_01]: A comfortable position.

[00:23:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. I'm not saying in the bag, but I'm just curious, like, yeah,

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, what's the thought there?

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Is it is it? Why does anybody think that this is a competitive race?

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, there's two things.

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_00]: One, my understanding is the feeling is and I think this is true.

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_00]: No one has yet tested the proposition of going after

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Tammi for being as far left as she is on some of these hot button issues,

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_00]: whether it's defund, which position she is not backed away from even today.

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, she still continues to say we should be defunding the police or

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_00]: whether it's the drug law or or what have you.

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And so so I think there's a feeling like, you know, it hasn't been tested.

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it's going to make a big difference when people hear this stuff.

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it is going to get tested in this general election.

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And we'll see whether it makes any difference.

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think the second thing is, man, I mean,

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Tammy, Tammy Morales aside from Shama

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_00]: So-Want is probably the most polarizing council member because she is so far

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_00]: left. And so folks in the center really can't stay.

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's I think it's very funny that nobody is polarizing on the right.

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Only the people on the left are polarizing.

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you were just saying you think Sarah Nelson's super polarizing.

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, well, I think she literally know what I said.

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, yes, I do for various reasons, but I think, you know,

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, she is the cause of a lot of the conflict, I think on the council.

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_02]: But also, I mean, she's just it's indisputable that she often starts

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_02]: conflict when it's totally unnecessary, when everybody is on the same page and

[00:24:33] [SPEAKER_02]: is often, you know, the one person voting at something that everybody else,

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, supports.

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_01]: I'll say dear dear listeners, they're both right.

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And wrong.

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Tammy Morales was one of two people to vote for Shama

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_01]: So-Want's rent control proposal.

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody else in the council voted against.

[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's also true that Sarah Nelson, along with probably two other council

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_01]: people will often be like in the minority on votes.

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know who's more polarizing.

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Is this like a personality thing or is it more the votes?

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I like I said, I think there's a whole episode to be done about like

[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_00]: the weird fucked up interpersonal relationships between the various council

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_00]: members and how it's affecting policy.

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Should we do that before the elections over or after that?

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_01]: We should probably we should do it.

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_00]: We could maybe do it.

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I think we should finish the council races next week.

[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And then I think after that we could do it.

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, we can talk about the budget where a bunch of this stuff is going to come

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_02]: up and where I think you're going to see a lot of examples of Sarah Nelson.

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Again, not just being in the three vote minority, but being like

[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_02]: the one person who's advocating for something that everybody is kind of

[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_02]: rolling their eyes at.

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, I mean, I think to to to pretend that isn't happening is,

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, to be deliberately delusional.

[00:25:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it is it is a huge factor on the council right now.

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_01]: That's it for another edition of Seattle Nice.

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks everybody so much for listening.

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks everybody who's been donating through our Patreon page.

[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I have to say the donations have fallen off a little bit lately.

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_01]: So if you're feeling like it's a time where you might be able to help

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_01]: support a podcast, a modest podcast like this one, please help us do it.

[00:26:11] [SPEAKER_01]: We actually have a pretty considerable expense every week.

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_01]: That's our editor, Quinn Waller.

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks to Quinn for all the fantastic editing that she does every week.

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_01]: You can also advertise by contacting us at real Seattle Nice at Gmail.

[00:26:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And one last word to the candidates out there.

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_01]: If you think these questions like Erica is saying are too simplistic.

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Why don't you bring it?

[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Because I, you know, if there's no new ones happening,

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_01]: you've got a full minute or a minute and a half.

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_01]: If you're not bringing it, I think it's your fault.

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it's the questions fault at all.

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And everybody else, thanks so much for listening.